Casinos in North Jersey - YES OR NO

Like others, I am getting bombarded by mail from groups that are for and against the proposed casinos in Northern New Jersey.

The latest flyer claims that "Casino operators will pay a local host fee, property taxes, hotel taxes, sales taxes, income taxes and gaming taxes..... ALL WITH NO COST TO TAXPAYERS."

I don't believe for a second it will cost nothing for taxpayers. On the surface it sounds like another massive giveaway for wealthy developers.

My gut says to vote no, but I haven't followed the issue closely.

What does the MOL crowd think?


The TV commercials where the casino bill is positioned as all about helping senior citizens and neighboring states have supposedly "stolen" millions from NJ are hilarious. I have zero knowledge of the issues involved, but those spots are like a parody of misleading and manipulative advertising.


Casinos didn't improve the Atlantic City economy much.


I would not oppose an Aqueduct type casino in the Meadowlands sports complex. But this proposition is too broad.


And the lottery was to help the schools.


No.

A few days ago I had heard that the proponents had pulled the advertising.

Is that not correct?


Agreed...these ads and mailings are so bad that they put me off the issue completely. Since then I learned that they deliberately wrote the law with a boundary of 72 miles from AC, in order to deliberately exclude Monmouth Park Raceway from contention.

This has Big Corporate Deal written all over it, and I will absolutely vote "no" unless I learn something unexpected.

imonlysleeping said:

The TV commercials where the casino bill is positioned as all about helping senior citizens and neighboring states have supposedly "stolen" millions from NJ are hilarious. I have zero knowledge of the issues involved, but those spots are like a parody of misleading and manipulative advertising.



I will vote no, but everyone should understand that a big part of the opposition is AC casino employee unions.


Casinos generate tax money into the state treasury. Those that are going to gamble will continue to gamble but they will do so where it is most accessible. In 201, 973,762, and 908 area codes, accessibility means eastern Pennsylvania or Aquaduct, N.Y. Simply, N.Y. and Pa. are getting tax revenue that used to go to the state via Atlantic City.

Besides taxes coming from the casino profits, there would be income generated from employee income tax and sales tax from sales at the casino restaurants and shops. N.J. jobs would be created in construction and in the casinos once the casinos are opened.



yahooyahoo said:

....
The latest flyer claims that "Casino operators will pay a local host fee, property taxes, hotel taxes, sales taxes, income taxes and gaming taxes..... ALL WITH NO COST TO TAXPAYERS."

I don't believe for a second it will cost nothing for taxpayers.

How will taxpayers lose money on this? There would be no bonds floated since the casinos would be paid for by developers.



Tom_Reingold said:

Casinos didn't improve the Atlantic City economy much.

The casinos pumped millions, if not billions into A.C. The mayor and council squandered it. You can google the names of at least one mayor and many council members that were convicted of corruption. They had since 1972 to use casino money to rebuild A.C. There were some low income housing units built along with many tear-downs that resulted in vacant lots that are still vacant today.

Finally, about 5 years ago, the city sponsored the walking mall that contains the same crappy chain stores that are to be found in malls. The only problem with the walking mall is that no one went there in winter. Now, after the Pennsylvania casinos opened, few people go there at all.

None of that is the fault of the casinos or the plan to take casino revenue and use it to rebuild the city. Rather, it is the fault of the useless politicians elected to run A.C.



Part of the experience for me is the atmosphere..>AC has atmosphere, north jersey doesn't



jerseyjack said:



Tom_Reingold said:

Casinos didn't improve the Atlantic City economy much.

The casinos pumped millions, if not billions into A.C. The mayor and council squandered it. You can google the names of at least one mayor and many council members that were convicted of corruption. They had since 1972 to use casino money to rebuild A.C. There were some low income housing units built along with many tear-downs that resulted in vacant lots that are still vacant today.

Finally, about 5 years ago, the city sponsored the walking mall that contains the same crappy chain stores that are to be found in malls. The only problem with the walking mall is that no one went there in winter. Now, after the Pennsylvania casinos opened, few people go there at all.

None of that is the fault of the casinos or the plan to take casino revenue and use it to rebuild the city. Rather, it is the fault of the useless politicians elected to run A.C.

Walk two blocks off the boardwalk. The people who work in those casinos are barely making a living, if you can even call it that. The casinos were supposed to bring money in the form of jobs, but those casinos do everything within their power to pay the people who keep those places running as little as possible while the people at the top make disgusting amounts of money. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have an issue with the people at the top making huge amounts if they at least paid a fair wage to those at the bottom. The people serving drinks and cleaning rooms barely scrape by. These are the "jobs" they're really going to bring here, not something you can support a family on.


Are AC casino workers unionized?



Red_Barchetta said:

I will vote no, but everyone should understand that a big part of the opposition is AC casino employee unions.

The emotional opposition ads of "concerned citizens" (actors) are paid for by a front created by not just NJ but also NY unions and a Queens casino operator.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/08/ny_interests_jumping_into_fight_over_northern_nj_g.html



No. Just another corrupt opportunity for patronage positions, union payoffs and paybacks, eminent domain abuses, cash for gold stores and strip clubs. Pass.




krugle said:

Are AC casino workers unionized?

Yes. I am an "honorary" member for my efforts to make casinos smoke free.


The union exists but is largely ineffective in the face of threats to close any casino.


No.

Have not heard any good reason to vote otherwise.


I just cannot think of any good reasons to vote in favor of this.



ml1 said:

I just cannot think of any good reasons to vote in favor of this.

On my post from yesterday, 9:55 p.m., I gave you three good reasons to vote yes. Here's a fourth. Less people will drive to A.C., thus reducing pollution and reducing car accidents.


Can you give me four good reasons, that you can document, to vote no?



jerseyjack said:

Casinos generate tax money into the state treasury. Those that are going to gamble will continue to gamble but they will do so where it is most accessible. In 201, 973,762, and 908 area codes, accessibility means eastern Pennsylvania or Aquaduct, N.Y. Simply, N.Y. and Pa. are getting tax revenue that used to go to the state via Atlantic City.

Besides taxes coming from the casino profits, there would be income generated from employee income tax and sales tax from sales at the casino restaurants and shops. N.J. jobs would be created in construction and in the casinos once the casinos are opened.



Since every other poster is on the other side of this issue can one of you address these points and offer counter-arguments?

My first instinct is to vote "No" but part of that does come from my negative reaction to the commercials.



LOST said:



jerseyjack said:

Casinos generate tax money into the state treasury. Those that are going to gamble will continue to gamble but they will do so where it is most accessible. In 201, 973,762, and 908 area codes, accessibility means eastern Pennsylvania or Aquaduct, N.Y. Simply, N.Y. and Pa. are getting tax revenue that used to go to the state via Atlantic City.

Besides taxes coming from the casino profits, there would be income generated from employee income tax and sales tax from sales at the casino restaurants and shops. N.J. jobs would be created in construction and in the casinos once the casinos are opened.




Since every other poster is on the other side of this issue can one of you address these points and offer counter-arguments?

My first instinct is to vote "No" but part of that does come from my negative reaction to the commercials.

Southern N.J. will be hurt but I believe the state will overall, gain. I doubt the loss of A.C. jobs will be significant since those casinos already lost jobs to Pennsylvania. The overall gain will be that of customers returning to casinos in northern N.J.

My only concern would be the possibility of a few more gamblers with gambling addiction problems. However, I believe those people would find their way to Pa. or NY anyway.



I would think it's a lot easier to become a gambler if it's around the corner than if you have to make an effort or pay money to get there.


No. I think casinos (and lotteries) take money from those who can least afford it.



jerseyjack said:



Tom_Reingold said:

Casinos didn't improve the Atlantic City economy much.

The casinos pumped millions, if not billions into A.C. The mayor and council squandered it. You can google the names of at least one mayor and many council members that were convicted of corruption. They had since 1972 to use casino money to rebuild A.C. There were some low income housing units built along with many tear-downs that resulted in vacant lots that are still vacant today.

Finally, about 5 years ago, the city sponsored the walking mall that contains the same crappy chain stores that are to be found in malls. The only problem with the walking mall is that no one went there in winter. Now, after the Pennsylvania casinos opened, few people go there at all.

None of that is the fault of the casinos or the plan to take casino revenue and use it to rebuild the city. Rather, it is the fault of the useless politicians elected to run A.C.

I would expect all that to be repeated. There's something about "vice" industries that tend to bring this sort of thing on. If you're betting it would be done better this time, I'd like to know why you think so.


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