Anyone watching the SOMSD budget meeting that is live streaming?
I didn't think that there ever was a REQUIREMENT for chorus or band. I hope this doesn't mean removing the OPTION of chorus or band. And what about orchestra?
It was probably chorus or orchestra... not band. I'll fix. I believe all 6th and 7th graders currently take chorus and/or orchestra all year... so it may be a requirement? Someone more knowledgeable can probably clarify what that piece was about.
ETA: I actually started this thread hoping someone could fill me in on some of the background and implications of the budget. I've been skipping my monthly dose of watching BOE meetings lately.
If what my son gets for Spanish in elementary school is typical, they ought to cut it. Once a week, when it isn't cancelled for some reason, is beyond worthless. It is a token effort at best.
I agree with FilmCarp on elementary Spanish. But I'd go one step further and say that it actually has made my children feel that they aren't good at language learning. It was weak when my 12th grader took it and it is weak now. I just wish that cutting it would allow us to add a non-Romance Language teacher to our extremely lopsided HS curriculum.
Agree on the elementary world language program. Members of the BOE have said either do it right, or put the resources where they can provide greater benefit. Certainly once per week is not doing it right, and with money such a scarce resource, it's the right decision, although it will probably face some pushback.
ice said:
Certainly once per week is not doing it right, and with money such a scarce resource, it's the right decision, although it will probably face some pushback.
Yes. Watching the audience members at the budget meeting defending programs on the chopping block, such as the elementary Spanish program, is just heartbreaking.
The budget proposed to the BOE would be a tax increase of 3.56%.
Right on the heels of the re-valuations in the towns. There will be some sticker shock.
My prediction is that those spam-by-mail property value appeals lawyers will do well next year.
An additional asst principal at CHS would make 4 asst principals. My high school, twice the size of CHS, had 1 asst principal. I'd rather pay for good teachers and programs then pay for more administrators.
Not defending any numbers of administrators, but 10 years ago CHS had 3 Deans and 3 APs; next year 4APs and no Deans. Ten years ago far less mandatory testing (PARCC and the utterly useless and expensive end of year state-mandated Bio tests -- which do not count for the school, the student nor the teacher) which add up to a lot of admin time and lost teaching time. With no Deans next year, APs will probably have to be more involved in the disciplinary side of the ledger to the extent it is needed. Many years ago the District did not have a security staff - now we do; many years ago the buildings were "younger" -- now they are older and decrepit; many years ago the content of education was relatively straightforward -- now it has changed dramatically and the newer topics are not cheap (synthetic biology, robotics, coding); many years ago no one had a computer in school nor a cell phone -- now we have thousands of chromebooks and more such devices are needed. The point is that as the District moves on in time, costs rise and not just because salaries move up.
Last summer I was in upstate NY visiting and I saw an article in a local paper that the Oneida County Office building was undergoing a huge and long-term renovation by having the asbestos removed. They did this one floor at a time and sealed it off from the rest of the building; staff was moved around. This has been going on for years and has years to run. It will cost close to $20 million when done. But they did have space to move employees around.
At Columbia there is no such leeway -- we can't put kids anywhere while the District removes asbestos. Sooner or later the District will have to do a significant bond issue to modernize/replace structures. If you own a house, sooner or later you modernize the kitchens and bathrooms, replace ceilings and walls as needed, especially if you intend to sell. Well, we don't get to do that here with the schools. I encourage those who haven't done so, walk around the high school when it is open and just look at all the wires and cables and security systems hanging on the walls in the old central core of the building. To remove all the asbestos from the 1927 building -- the core of CHS -- cannot be done as there is no place to put the kids. The other wings of the school -- B, C and D all interconnect with the central core.
The swimming pool will never be used as a pool again. That space for the time being is dead space. If it is ever filled with water, the danger of collapse is very real and that would lead to a real disaster. To fix that space so it could be used for some other function is NOT cheap. So it sits. Since it is an interior structure, it is difficult to gain access to for serious construction. The decision to build C-wing around the pool was made many, many years ago before anyone involved in the planning the schools was here.
I encourage everyone to focus on the state legislature which has set the system up to make sure certain districts are funded well and others are not. The system of relying on property taxes hurts this District tremendously as we have no malls, no office parks, no industrial parks. We have a lot of restaurants, real estate agencies and nail salons. Yes, people here do not want to pay high taxes - and unless the state of NJ revises the formula for funding of education, we are on a very difficult bind.
lord_pabulum said:
An additional asst principal at CHS would make 4 asst principals. My high school, twice the size of CHS, had 1 asst principal. I'd rather pay for good teachers and programs then pay for more administrators.
The sup't cited that this was partially to replace the Dean positions at CHS. Also, that the AP to student ratio for urban schools is typically 1 for every 500 students, and for suburban schools is typically more generous than that.
SOMSD has over 500 students per grade level.. and growing.
When were you in high school? Things have changed over the years and education is more complicated than it used to be.
lord_pabulum said:
An additional asst principal at CHS would make 4 asst principals. My high school, twice the size of CHS, had 1 asst principal. I'd rather pay for good teachers and programs then pay for more administrators.
As an aside, Deans are "Teachers on Assignment" and if the Dean position is eliminated the individual returns to a teaching position. A year ago a Dean moved back to a teaching position in one of the other District schools when the District reduced the number of Dean positions from 2 to 1. A couple years before that a Dean retired and that position was not replaced, i.e., the high school went from 3 Deans to 2 Deans; last year to 1 Dean; next year no Deans.
What Deans do has not gone away. Some mechanism is needed to work on the myriad of issues related to discipline, attendance, cuts, tardies, credit recovery programs, etc etc etc.
The cutting of elementary Spanish is an example of how when programs are apparently spared, it's really just a 1-3 year deferral of the cuts.
My memory is not perfect, but I remember the elimination of elementary school foreign language was contemplated in 2015 due to a belief that the students weren't really benefiting from such a small amount of Spanish, but eventually the cuts were made elsewhere.
Now it's 2017 and elementary school Spanish is being eliminated.
As someone whose children haven't even started the schools here yet, it gives me a great deal of anxiety to accept that there is no budgetary light at the end of the tunnel for us.
And as bad as things are now, just think how bad they will be in the next recession.
ice said:
Agree on the elementary world language program. Members of the BOE have said either do it right, or put the resources where they can provide greater benefit. Certainly once per week is not doing it right, and with money such a scarce resource, it's the right decision, although it will probably face some pushback.
jbennett, one thing to keep in mind during these depressing discussions is that the teachers are mostly excellent. They really do care, and make an effort to help each child. Our guy is in fifth grade and while nothing is perfect we are overall very happy.
JBennett said:
The cutting of elementary Spanish is an example of how when programs are apparently spared, it's really just a 1-3 year deferral of the cuts.
My memory is not perfect, but I remember the elimination of elementary school foreign language was contemplated in 2015 due to a belief that the students weren't really benefiting from such a small amount of Spanish, but eventually the cuts were made elsewhere.
Now it's 2017 and elementary school Spanish is being eliminated.
As someone whose children haven't even started the schools here yet, it gives me a great deal of anxiety to accept that there is no budgetary light at the end of the tunnel for us.
And as bad as things are now, just think how bad they will be in the next recession.
maplewood.worldwebs.com/profile/discussions/u/ice">ice said:
Agree on the elementary world language program. Members of the BOE have said either do it right, or put the resources where they can provide greater benefit. Certainly once per week is not doing it right, and with money such a scarce resource, it's the right decision, although it will probably face some pushback.
I think that's right Jeff. It got saved at the last moment at least that one time.
As families with 4th & 5th graders who are losing 1 hour per week of Spanish look at the bigger picture, perhaps they will be heartened to know that this budget also adds 6 teachers in the middle schools that will help in managing core-subject class size starting next year. If I had a student getting ready for middle school in the next 2 years, I think I would take that trade-off, even as I would lament the loss of the Spanish instruction.
And I agree that the current budget outlook is anxiety-inducing. If the state continues to neglect its own funding formulas, we have nowhere to go but down from here.
I believe Spanish ended up being saved -- due to state requirements to have elementary foreign language.
I can't find a good summary of the budget results. I think they voted to go above the cap to a 3.something%?
sprout said:
I believe Spanish ended up being saved -- due to state requirements to have elementary foreign language.
I can't find a good summary of the budget results. I think they voted to go above the cap to a 3.something%?
3.56%
susan1014 said:
I agree with FilmCarp on elementary Spanish. But I'd go one step further and say that it actually has made my children feel that they aren't good at language learning. It was weak when my 12th grader took it and it is weak now. I just wish that cutting it would allow us to add a non-Romance Language teacher to our extremely lopsided HS curriculum.
Last I heard, they were bringing in a Mandarin teacher for a pilot program at CHS. Not sure of the status of that.
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It's a typical presentation of options.(Then taking some questions from audience at the end)
Not sure if I'm understanding correctly but I think:
Using the max and the cap is the Supt's recommendation.
They are requesting another Assistant Principal at the HS, an additional part time nurse, and other positions.
If I heard correctly, requesting removal of requirement of chorus or orchestra in middle school.
Requesting reduction in science lab (asking to be included in the regular sessions of the science classes itself), and reduction in physical education credits to state minimums (instead of the additional credits that are offered for each), to reduce a position in each.
Cut of elementary school Spanish.