Anyone planning to forgo health insurance in 2018 due to cost?
Putting together the premiums + deductible, let alone the "total out of pocket," it does really feel awful. However, when pinned down (as we are, thanks to forces that belong in Politics), we have to choose something with predictable 5-digit costs instead of the threat of 6, or more, or bankruptcy.
My heart goes out to those who actually can't afford to pay for it, and a swift kick in the ***** to those goofing around in Washington and state capitals while this happens.
I've ALWAYS been in favor of paying for health insurance and not going a minute without it. But when you have two kids in college, the health insurance premiums and out of pocket costs add up to a third (in-state) college tuition. Bankruptcy can loom with or without the health insurance. At least forgoing insurance offers a chance of not going bankrupt precisely because it is unpredictable and we can end up with very low healthcare costs. With just routine visits, I figure about $5k for the year. Same scenario with insurance, $25k.
sometimes percentages are misleading. Can you share what your premiums will be? I just looked at a plan in NY for a friend's son and it will be about 700/month which is a 30% increase over last year but still less than what I pay for mine.
My company-subsidized United Healthcare Silver plan for myself and children went up FOUR AND A HALF TIMES for 2018. Probably dropping down to Bronze though the deductibles are MUCH higher.
serious question. What other country could one move to for retirement where health care insurance would be covered? I am okay now because we have decent coverage still though employer plans. But I refuse to let the $ I've saved be taken away from me in old age because I need long- term care. What are the options? I'd prefer warm, by the way 
iwasmim said:
My company-subsidized United Healthcare Silver plan for myself and children went up FOUR AND A HALF TIMES for 2018. Probably dropping down to Bronze though the deductibles are MUCH higher.
It's crazy, isn't it? My silver plan is about to double because the subsidies aren't going up to cover the increase. What a stupid system we have.
Look into setting up an HSA and going with a high dedutctible - the tax benefits are wonderful -- I set mine up with optumbank - great investment vehicles
Not sure why this isnt more popular for the healthy who dont want to pay insurance co for services they wont use
Our helpful politicians would be happy to point out to you how lucky you are to continue to be eligible to buy health insurance. (You are also eligible to buy yourself a Rolls Royce, if that makes a difference in your life.)
new207040 said:
Look into setting up an HSA and going with a high dedutctible - the tax benefits are wonderful -- I set mine up with optumbank - great investment vehicles
Not sure why this isnt more popular for the healthy who dont want to pay insurance co for services they wont use
https://www.schwab.com/resource-center/insights/content/health-savings-accounts-maximizing-your-hsa-retirement-savings
I'm a financial moron, but my husband's new gig offered this. As I understand it, though, any money put aside and not used is forfeited. Is that right? If so, you would have to know exactly how much you were going to outlay, and I don't think the premiums and copays were able to be paid with the HSA.
No, you are thinking of an FSA where it's use it or lose it. An HSA rolls over every year and is more like an investment vehicle. Like a 401k savings account for health expenses.
We have a high -deductible plus HSA plan offered though my work. It has around a $2,000 individual deductible. It costs us around $140 a month for 2 people, covers all preventative care and I'd say we wind up paying out another $1,000-1500 annually for unexpected medical tests, extra office visits that aren't covered. But if you do a few silly thinks like go for your annual exams, sign up for healthcare reminders, do little activities on line, you can easily earn $600 that the company puts into the HSA account for you. Then you can take payroll deductions for extra monthly contributions to the HSA.
Are these types of plans offered through the subsidized, Obamacare insurance?
callista said:
new207040 said:
Look into setting up an HSA and going with a high dedutctible - the tax benefits are wonderful -- I set mine up with optumbank - great investment vehicles
Not sure why this isnt more popular for the healthy who dont want to pay insurance co for services they wont use
https://www.schwab.com/resource-center/insights/content/health-savings-accounts-maximizing-your-hsa-retirement-savings
I'm a financial moron, but my husband's new gig offered this. As I understand it, though, any money put aside and not used is forfeited. Is that right? If so, you would have to know exactly how much you were going to outlay, and I don't think the premiums and copays were able to be paid with the HSA.
Just be careful. It may not be valid to assume that present tax advantages will exist in the near future. Federal government is looking to remove a lot of current tax advantages. State may also be rethinking tax structure at some time in the future.
you dont buy HSA through your health insurance you buy through a qualified bank/investment house you just need a high deduct health plan. When I enrolled it asked for my policy info so you need to be enrolled in the HD plan to join up. You can even roll exisiting IRA/401k monies into the plan once and if over 55 you can increase your contribution.
Also you do not need to buy through an employer or broker you can buy direct. And this program is seperate from 401 so you can max out both plans to reduce tax liability
For me personally I would rather go HD and put the $ difference I would have paid for a lower deduct plan in the HSA. If I do need to use the HSA monies they are not taxed $ so i am saving there as well vs straight out of pocket. They give you a debit card to use to pay for qualified expenses.
After 62.5 you can use the monies like an IRA/401 for anything not just health insurance !
I have not heard any news this would be targeted in the new tax plan as it follows Trumps agenda to stop feeding insurance companies with allot of $ and his mission to get more people on policies with min coverage (Jared brother in law is the investor in OSCAR a HD insurer)
Anyone who is thinking their premiums are going up because the Obamacare CSR (Cost Sharing Reduction) payments are ending is overstating matters unless they are in the individual market and are a "household earning between 100 percent and 250 percent of the federal poverty level (about $12,000 to $30,000 for an individual, and about $24,000 to $60,750 for a family of four)." In 2016 this was about $7B and in 2017 about 7 million people qualified. It's a big deal for them, but it's not the sort of thing that has large macro effects, and insurance companies have been trying to price it in already for a while.
We're above that income level but our Silver plan will go from roughly $1550/month to a little over $2000/month next year.
We always used to get a PPO, but last year these disappeared from the individual markets, no matter how much you were willing to pay. We're in an EPO now and have additional out of pocket expenses for services which are not covered.
I don't see how you can blame Trump for all of this. Every year of Obamacare the individual market has gotten more expensive and the plans have provided less. It's as if it was designed to do so...
is healthcare not being offered by employers anymore? it sounds like in the above examples of people paying $2000+ a month for healthcare, these are people in the workforce. Would a job switch, even if meant lower pay make sense?
Our private sector unions still cover our health care, although with ever decreasing benefits. Eventually the Republicans will manage to destroy unions completely and that will get us.
it's Trump and GOP fueled uncertainty in the marketplace that's driving premium increases. And that probably has been the Republican plan all along.
mikescott said:
sometimes percentages are misleading. Can you share what your premiums will be? I just looked at a plan in NY for a friend's son and it will be about 700/month which is a 30% increase over last year but still less than what I pay for mine.
Sounds like your friend's son is a single person. And he's in NY, which has its own exchange. We are a family in NJ, which does not have a state exchange and thus must use the federal exchange. Our dollar amount increase is $735. Currently $1115. New premium is $1850.
new207040 said:
Look into setting up an HSA and going with a high dedutctible - the tax benefits are wonderful -- I set mine up with optumbank - great investment vehicles
Not sure why this isnt more popular for the healthy who dont want to pay insurance co for services they wont use
https://www.schwab.com/resource-center/insights/content/health-savings-accounts-maximizing-your-hsa-retirement-savings
We do have a high-deductible plan and have purchased an HSA. BTW, HSAs cannot be used to pay for premiums.
Also, as I mentioned, our co-pays, co-insurance, deductible, and max out-of-pocket are going up. We'll have to wait and see what else is offered on November 1. My ideal plan would be catastrophic-only plan. I'd gladly pay $500/month for an HSA-eligible plan that covers 100% after a $30,000 deductible. Or even a $50k deductible.
Thanks! See, I was not exaggerating my lack of financial acumen!
conandrob240 said:
No, you are thinking of an FSA where it's use it or lose it. An HSA rolls over every year and is more like an investment vehicle. Like a 401k savings account for health expenses.
We have a high -deductible plus HSA plan offered though my work. It has around a $2,000 individual deductible. It costs us around $140 a month for 2 people, covers all preventative care and I'd say we wind up paying out another $1,000-1500 annually for unexpected medical tests, extra office visits that aren't covered. But if you do a few silly thinks like go for your annual exams, sign up for healthcare reminders, do little activities on line, you can easily earn $600 that the company puts into the HSA account for you. Then you can take payroll deductions for extra monthly contributions to the HSA.
Are these types of plans offered through the subsidized, Obamacare insurance?
callista said:
new207040 said:
Look into setting up an HSA and going with a high dedutctible - the tax benefits are wonderful -- I set mine up with optumbank - great investment vehicles
Not sure why this isnt more popular for the healthy who dont want to pay insurance co for services they wont use
https://www.schwab.com/resource-center/insights/content/health-savings-accounts-maximizing-your-hsa-retirement-savings
I'm a financial moron, but my husband's new gig offered this. As I understand it, though, any money put aside and not used is forfeited. Is that right? If so, you would have to know exactly how much you were going to outlay, and I don't think the premiums and copays were able to be paid with the HSA.
callista said:
new207040 said:
Look into setting up an HSA and going with a high dedutctible - the tax benefits are wonderful -- I set mine up with optumbank - great investment vehicles
Not sure why this isnt more popular for the healthy who dont want to pay insurance co for services they wont use
https://www.schwab.com/resource-center/insights/content/health-savings-accounts-maximizing-your-hsa-retirement-savings
I'm a financial moron, but my husband's new gig offered this. As I understand it, though, any money put aside and not used is forfeited. Is that right? If so, you would have to know exactly how much you were going to outlay, and I don't think the premiums and copays were able to be paid with the HSA.
HSA or FSA? If it's an HSA, no you do not forfeit it at the end of the year. It's there for you forever. You can continue contributing to it as long as your insurance plan is one that is eligible for an accompanying HSA (they call it a "high-deductible" plan). If/when you no longer have an HSA-eligible insurance plan, you can still use your accumulated HSA funds to PAY for medical expenses, but you can no longer contribute to the HSA.
You cannot use an HSA to pay premiums. You CAN use it to pay co-pays, co-insurance, deductibles, and out-of-network costs.
The sad part is that Obamacare would have been a much better program if it had been enacted as written. You can't take a finely balanced, complex equation,remove chunks of it, and still expect it to function well. Americans, even on the right, have come to feel healthcare is a right, and we need the GOP to stop playing games and work with the best of intentions to get a great system in place, without kowtowing to donors and lobbyists. Enough, already.
callista said:
The sad part is that Obamacare would have been a much better program if it had been enacted as written. You can't take a finely balanced, complex equation,remove chunks of it, and still expect it to function well. Americans, even on the right, have come to feel healthcare is a right, and we need the GOP to stop playing games and work with the best of intentions to get a great system in place, without kowtowing to donors and lobbyists. Enough, already.
Correct.
This article speaks directly to the OP’s concerns. I remember back when ACA was in its infancy and before DJT was in the running, number crunchers spoke of significant increases in store beginning in 2017. They were so clairvoyant!
Healthy young people were opting out, rather taking the penalty. Those healthcare funds did not materialize and the income which would have provided a cushion for cost spikes was just not there. The penalty condition for going without health insurance did not seem workable from the getgo.
God only knows if the plan in the pipeline now will be successful. Maybe time and more experience and bipartisan cooperation will provide what we need.
In response to the question posed in the thread title, we are not forgoing insurance since my husband's employer offers a good plan that is not TOO outrageously expensive. But health insurance concerns are causing us to delay retirement that we would otherwise be seriously considering right now.
I agree with this too. I was considering an early retirement using savings to bridge the 5-7 years until 401k/SS eligible. I dont think that’s possible because we couldn’t afford the insurance those gap years.
Seven years ago when the ACA passed, I had expected/hoped that it would shake out and be improved enough by now to allow us to use it to bridge the gap until Medicare-eligible. Thank you (NOT!) to the politicians for squashing that hope.
sac said:
Seven years ago when the ACA passed, I had expected/hoped that it would shake out and be improved enough by now to allow us to use it to bridge the gap until Medicare-eligible. Thank you (NOT!) to the politicians for squashing that hope.
Remember, the goal of G.O.P. is that A.C.A. (Romneycare) should fail.
conandrob240 said:
serious question. What other country could one move to for retirement where health care insurance would be covered? I am okay now because we have decent coverage still though employer plans. But I refuse to let the $ I've saved be taken away from me in old age because I need long- term care. What are the options? I'd prefer warm, by the way
Hong Kong.
conandrob240 said:
serious question. What other country could one move to for retirement where health care insurance would be covered? I am okay now because we have decent coverage still though employer plans. But I refuse to let the $ I've saved be taken away from me in old age because I need long- term care. What are the options? I'd prefer warm, by the way
Then you need to move, to Hong Kong or similar. If they'll take you.
If you need long term-term care and you're living here, your money WILL be taken from you. They may even take your children's money.
Here's another story to enlighten and depress:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/24/science/medicaid-cutbacks-elderly-nursing-homes.html
Yes, I know. That’s why I asked the question. Not Hong Kong. Europe?
BG9 said:
conandrob240 said:
serious question. What other country could one move to for retirement where health care insurance would be covered? I am okay now because we have decent coverage still though employer plans. But I refuse to let the $ I've saved be taken away from me in old age because I need long- term care. What are the options? I'd prefer warm, by the way
Then you need to move, to Hong Kong or similar. If they'll take you.
If you need long term-term care and you're living here, your money WILL be taken from you. They may even take your children's money.
Here's another story to enlighten and depress:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/24/science/medicaid-cutbacks-elderly-nursing-homes.html
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Our premium is going up 67 percent. Plus, copay, coinsurance, deductibles, and maximum out of pocket are going up. All in, it will cost us at least $10k more for the year.
This is not insurance. It's extortion. "Pay this money or else you won't get medical care." It's not the routine doctor visits I care about. I'd gladly pay out of pocket. But if someone gets really sick [g-d forbid], it's all over. We don't have $1M on hand to pay for cancer treatment. Besides, even if we did pay for the new, 67%-high-premium insurance, it it would still cost us an outrageous amount out of pocket.
What's the point of the health insurance?
Putting this in Please Help, not Politics, because I just want to talk about the practicalities.