Another Reason to Get Off Facebook

yahooyahoo said:
What happened to the awesome website that Torpey was going to build?

 We spent a bunch of tax money on a website no one wanted except Torpey (who wanted all criticism moderated away, I think).


I believe I posted on it once, and never saw more than a few dozen posts in it.I think it was discontinued once he was gone.  


mrincredible said:
There are those of who consciously choose to not join Facebook. Is there information which is shared via Facebook which is not available through other channels like the town website?

 Facebook seems to be the preferred forum, I believe. I’m not on Facebook and have no access to Nextdoor. I’m not suggesting we make a complicated website but there should be a place online that is accessible to everyone for info and discussion that hasn’t been found to violate our privacy or sell our children stuff without our permission. This isn’t a radical request. It’s a way to open a discussion about moving forward in a way that gives as many people as possible access to as much info and access to town officials as possible. 


Why would you think some newly created website would give people greater access? As opposed to an existing platform that gives open access to anyone and is widely used? seems to me they’ve chosen the most widely used, easily available, free platform already. 


I don't know that S.O. has "chosen" FB. Here and there someone name tags Sheena with a question or concern, and she usually responds. Once in awhile she might announce something on FB, but that information is also posted elsewhere. Most posts I see on FB about and from the town seem to be posted by Village Green or by individuals.


Sheena has posted some terrific explainers on FB -- how PILOTs are calculated, how the number of kids to expect from a given development is calculated, various planning and zoning concepts, etc. She's a professional planner and has a lot to offer. Maplewood people would be smart to follow her on FB to learn from her.

I'm sure all information that is legally required to be made public is posted in the correct places. But we can't expect her to participate and be available for questions in four or five different venues. FB is the overwhelming favorite for residents. She used to participate in MOL, but the traffic isn't here any more and all we do is complain about Trump. Isn't Next Door split up into separate neighborhoods? So that wouldn't work as a town-wide resource. And does anyone use it? 

Sheena puts a lot of time and thought into her posts. I've never seen Maplewood leadership do anything like that. I think if she's willing to share her knowledge, we need to go to her instead of expecting her to bring it to us. She does enough for the town already for an unpaid position.



I'm hoping to bring more local issues back to the site and separate the politics. 

The tough thing about FB is finding info you previous read - I find it very ADD and manic.  It's an addictive product where you are the end product.  And everyone running these groups are essentially working for Zuckerberg.

I'm looking for people to take over our town sites where they can actually make money off of their moderation.  I'm also looking for people to participate in a feedback forum - please message me if you're interested.  

If interested - I can easy set up a forum that the town can moderate - only caveat is that it would work with usernames.  Real name ability will work in the near future.  There are pluses and minuses with real name vs username but we can debate that somewhere else.


Sheena's FB page is a personal account, as opposed to an official SO page. In addition to SO information, she posts about her family, friends, and day job. I'm not aware of an "official" South Orange FB page. 

Using FB gives her instantaneous and wide-spread access to the community. For example, there were a couple of power outages last week. She had dozens of people giving her real-time updates so she could track the spread and communicate with PSE&G. I don't see that the outages were even mentioned here on MOL.


jamie said:

The tough thing about FB is finding info you previous read - I find it very ADD and manic.  

I agree - people post the same questions over and over and over.  You'll get a dozen versions of "Will there be recycling pickup on the Tuesday after ?" People ask for plumber recommendations every week. Nobody searches for anything, it seems.

I don't spend much time on Lounge because of that, plus it's a bit too catty and PC for me, but if there's an emergency or something urgent in town, it's the first place I'm going. The ease of reading and posting from your phone make it unbeatable for quick communications. 


I don't have a problem with Facebook, MOL, or any other on-line source being used as a tool to disseminate information and solicit input on local issues.  As a literate, English speaking, computer user who feels comfortable communicating in writing, I find that there are advantages to being able to gain instant access to information on a wide range of local issues and like that I can gain insight into various opinions and points of view that help with my own decision-making process.  My concern is that an overdependence  on any one communication tool removes a significant number of interested parties from the discussion.  What is needed is a balanced approach to communication which recognizes that not every interested party uses the Internet, is fluent in written English, or feels comfortable expressing themselves in a public forum.


kthnry said:
Sheena's FB page is a personal account, as opposed to an official SO page. In addition to SO information, she posts about her family, friends, and day job. I'm not aware of an "official" South Orange FB page. 
Using FB gives her instantaneous and wide-spread access to the community. For example, there were a couple of power outages last week. She had dozens of people giving her real-time updates so she could track the spread and communicate with PSE&G. I don't see that the outages were even mentioned here on MOL.

No good deed goes unpunished.  


Expecting an effective, widely available platform to be ‘free’ is just unrealistic.  If you depend on volunteers, then you get whatever they are able to provide.  If the towns do it, there is certainly a direct cost to the taxpayers. Village Green requires a paid subscription, just like the News-Record. Like it or not, ‘free’ social media platforms have to make money somehow and that’s generally via a combination of ads and data mining.  Facebook probably reaches more people than any other single service, so certainly should be in the mix. But, as Joan noted, there will always need to be multiple sources of the info.  I think that the audience drives it and, as long as so many are using Facebook, it will be a major piece of the puzzle.


When the OP was still on Nextdoor, she would address questions to Sheena almost on a daily basis - there were quite a number of them. Sheena spent the entire Fourth of July weekend responding to her questions - it took Sheena hours and hours to respond,   and Sheena graciously offered to meet with the OP and go over her questions. Sheena gave the OP her cellphone number. The OP refused to accept Sheena's offer. 

Sheena explained that South Orange is a town of 16,000 people, the position of Village President is a voluntary one, that she has a full-time job, that she has a Village to run, and that it would be unfair to everyone else in the Village if Sheena devoted what would essentially be all of her time to answering the OP's questions. 

Even after Sheena answered the OP's questions, in extremely lengthy and detailed posts, the OP was still not satisfied. 


Lovesagoodsale said:
why do you ask?  Yes. It is correct. On Soma lounge a woman invited other women to join her for a woman’s night out/ mehndi party. I guess they have these nights out regularly. Sounds like a lovely idea and way to meet other neighbors. A nice convo ensued until a person came on the thread and said the event was culturally appropriative and therefor not OK. I suggested that if that person felt so, the way to go about was to start a thread on that rather than trying to dissuade or shame women from attending the event because she didn’t approve. I told her shutting down conversation is the opposite of sharing and she had no right to rain on the parade of the woman who had graciously invited everyone to the event. Next thing I know, I was banned. Go figure!  I’m actually a pretty accomplished advocate for the First Amendment so this Facebook banning thing gives me hives. Feels like a place where you are meant to agree with the herd or perish. 

 I have a few friends who were banned for comments. Even for posting animals for adoption who were not from our towns. I hope they change that policy as both towns have St. Hubert's and it would be a wonderful forum for rescues like mine who live in town but help our neighboring towns with no resources. Sounds like you did nothing heinous.

Which brings me to the original post about FB. For those of us in rescue it is amazing. While most folks are sleeping many a rescuer is out trapping at 5 AM and posting pics asking for rescues to take a litter of sick kittens or an injured animal in need.  At all hours you can watch a network of dedicated rescuers fund, transport and shelter animals. Its all in the pictures and quick exchange of info. We network across the state and we get help from resources that would not be available on a site like Next Door which also limits posts on adoptable animals.

Let's not kill the goose, golden or otherwise.

 


Cramer pretty much nailed it.  Our VP gave more of herself than she should have.


Facebook is amazing for many things. It’s also not so good for other things. IMO, due to the privacy, surveillance and banning issues, it may not be a great place for political discussion if our future turns out even more Orwellian than things are now. Looking for a public forum that can’t be used against us where everyone in our community can feel free to have an opinion and not be called names or banned indiscriminately is not out of our grasp, I would hope. I see South Orange patch is opening up a forum. That’s free and open to all. Just FYI. So yes, these places exist. This MOL is a great place too. I’m sure it isn’t free and I’d like to thank Jamie for providing it. 


and just to be a stickler, if Sheena is conducting Village business on her personal page, it could be deemed to be an official forum which could be problematic. First Amendment issues are specifically the rights we can demand from our elected officials and government. 


There exactly is the problem.  She doesn't conduct village business on these forums. But she does give a lot of her time and effort to try to answer questions that residents have.  And here you are essentially criticizing her for it when you are one of the people she tried most to help. 


Lets be honest here, if the town did create a forum, given her track record on other platforms, it would only be a matter of time until Lovie was banned from it.  

The problem here isn't the format it is the individual.


Klinker: Is there any way you could be more civil?


Lovesagoodsale said:
Klinker: Is there any way you could be more civil?

The problem is that you have a history on multiple message boards of demanding unreasonable amounts of information, making unsupportable claims, changing the subject whenever someone posts a polite response that rebuts your point instead of engaging, and then claiming bullying/meanness ("snake pit") whenever someone's tone gets the slightest bit tense. Here's a recent example thread on MOL

I can see why Lounge blocked you. You are sucking all of the oxygen out of the room and not contributing much in exchange. Fortunately for you, MOL is much slower to suspend or block users.


whatever your opinion of me, namecalling and the like is counterproductive and does not foster good communication. Sheesh!


Lovesagoodsale said:
Klinker: Is there any way you could be more civil?

 Only at the cost of veracity.


kthnry said:

The problem is that you have a history on multiple message boards of demanding unreasonable amounts of information, making unsupportable claims, changing the subject whenever someone posts a polite response that rebuts your point instead of engaging, and then claiming bullying/meanness ("snake pit") whenever someone's tone gets the slightest bit tense
Lovesagoodsale said:
whatever your opinion of me, namecalling and the like is counterproductive and does not foster good communication. Sheesh!

 Chuckle....


not a good way to have a discussion. We would admonish children for communicating online this way. Alas. I leave you to yourselves so you can all agree with each other. 


A lot of what Facebook knows about us are the things we tell it.

Don't play the stupid games.  Don't find out "What Song Am I" just because one of your "friends" did.  Don't post pictures of your life.  Hell, don't tell it when your birthday is.

We're already online, even those of us who don't use a computer (our deceased parents are listed on websites, since they owned a home, for example).  We should use the tools available, but don't become tools by "over-sharing".  


just one more thing. The link to last night’s livestream was posted on Sheena’s personal page but not the South Orange Village Facebook page. I thought that odd but it does seem like official business. So it goes. 


But the meeting is broadcast live, and archived, so the information was and is available through official channels.


The Force Report is posted on the Village Website:

http://southorange.org/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=1561

It was also covered by the Village Green: 

https://villagegreennj.com/towns/south-orange/slides-south-orange-supplements-force-report-data-on-police-use-of-force/

Village Green is not free, but for a nominal cost of $24/yr it is an excellent source of information about all things in South Orange, and does a wonderful job of keeping residents informed. 




Every day, including today, I see someone post on Facebook, "I'm asking this for a friend who isn't on Facebook ...." And it's usually kind of a serious, important problem or issue where the person seems to sincerely need some help.

And I almost always think, well if you're in a situation where you need to crowdsource advice from strangers, maybe being on FB isn't such a bad thing.


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