Amazon just pulled out of N.Y.C.

Please, don't let it be Newark.


Yeah, God forbid we create a tech campus with 25,000 jobs averaging 150K.


Only in America does the company of the richest man in the world beg for money.

screw 'em


Apart from the overall question of whether Amazon was good or bad for NYC, gotta believe there was a speculative run up in Queens real estate in anticipation of it.  People are going to get burnt.  The NYC market was already slowing. 


They barely got past the first date, so I would hardly characterize it as pulling out.


drummerboy said:
Only in America does the company of the richest man in the world beg for money.

screw 'em

If he was begging for money he would have taken one of the 7 billion offers.

You do realize the 3 billion subsidy was not a payment to Amazon. It was a reduction of taxes paid by Amazon over the years which would have been 25 billion minus that 3 billion.

So, instead of NY getting 22 billion, NY will get zip. Plus the loss of 25,000 Amazon jobs and the 82,000 indirect jobs that would have been created.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/12/opinion/amazon-hq2-new-york.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/16/opinion/amazon-hq2-new-york.html

 


bub said:
Apart from the overall question of whether Amazon was good or bad for NYC, gotta believe there was a speculative run up in Queens real estate in anticipation of it.  People are going to get burnt.  The NYC market was already slowing. 

Diane Oleck, CNBC's real estate reporter, was just on and said residential sales in Long Island City were up 182% year over year since Amazon announced it was going to locate in LI City. 



It's so short-sighted by the opposition and the politicians who succumbed to them. Huge loss for the area - good luck with the organic redevelopment of LIC. And certainly a win for whichever runner-up city ends up with HQ2.


BG9 said:


You do realize the 3 billion subsidy was not a payment to Amazon. It was a reduction of taxes paid by Amazon over the years which would have been 25 billion minus that 3 billion.

 

Now what are NYC and NY going to do with the $3 billion they saved?   LOL 


Cuomo and DeB should have better understood how bad the optics of the $3B were and perhaps better prepared Amazon for the response. Yes, there's a lot of return on that investment, but with subways and other infrastructure crumbling, the widespread problems in public housing, and the perception of over-development that leans almost exclusively toward luxury and high end, the pushback really isn't surprising.


cramer said:


BG9 said:

You do realize the 3 billion subsidy was not a payment to Amazon. It was a reduction of taxes paid by Amazon over the years which would have been 25 billion minus that 3 billion.

 
Now what are NYC and NY going to do with the $3 billion they saved?   LOL 

Nothing, considering nothing was saved. What will they do now that they lost about 22 billion over the next ten years?


BG9 said:


cramer said:

BG9 said:

You do realize the 3 billion subsidy was not a payment to Amazon. It was a reduction of taxes paid by Amazon over the years which would have been 25 billion minus that 3 billion.

 
Now what are NYC and NY going to do with the $3 billion they saved?   LOL 
Nothing, considering nothing was saved. What will they do now that they lost about 22 billion over the next ten years?

I was being facetious.  

When unemployment goes back up to 8%, New Yorkers will look back and realize it was a stupid move. 


cramer said:


BG9 said:


cramer said:

BG9 said:

You do realize the 3 billion subsidy was not a payment to Amazon. It was a reduction of taxes paid by Amazon over the years which would have been 25 billion minus that 3 billion.

 
Now what are NYC and NY going to do with the $3 billion they saved?   LOL 
Nothing, considering nothing was saved. What will they do now that they lost about 22 billion over the next ten years?
I was being facetious.  
When unemployment goes back up to 8%, New Yorkers will look back and realize it was a stupid move. 

I suspected. But I thought I'd clarify to those who don't get it.

NYC's budget is over 90 billion. The city population is about 8,700,000. We're talking 11,000 tax dollars for every resident. Theoretically, a family of four averages to 44,000 in city taxes alone.

NYC needs a strong rich tax base to support that budget.

NYC is no position to say, lets throw away 25,000 very good jobs and possibly over 80,000 indirect jobs with some complaining that gentrification would have an adverse effect.


cramer said:


BG9 said:


cramer said:

BG9 said:

You do realize the 3 billion subsidy was not a payment to Amazon. It was a reduction of taxes paid by Amazon over the years which would have been 25 billion minus that 3 billion.

 
Now what are NYC and NY going to do with the $3 billion they saved?   LOL 
Nothing, considering nothing was saved. What will they do now that they lost about 22 billion over the next ten years?
I was being facetious.  
When unemployment goes back up to 8%, New Yorkers will look back and realize it was a stupid move. 

You're not going to believe this - Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez  was just on CNBC and was talking about everything they could now do with the $3 billion. 

eta - smh


. responding to criticism that by Amazon pulling out of HQ2 in Queens, 25,000 jobs were lost: "We were subsidizing those jobs." Says if state/city was willing to "give away $3 billion for this deal," investments can be made in hiring teachers and fixing the subway.

https://twitter.com/akarl_smith/status/1096123735935987712




25,000 jobs is a blip in NYC.   There are over 4 million people employed in NYC.  And plenty of other tech companies are expanding there.  There is a really good argument that of all the contenders, NYC was the least justified in giving Amazon a tax break.  There are already a long list of good business reasons for Amazon to locate there, just as Google has done.

That said, a city like Newark has a lot more to gain from Amazon locating there.  The tax breaks NJ was giving can be justified as an investment in a city that really needs the stimulus Amazon would bring.  NYC, not so much.


for context:  in 2018, NYC organically added 71,000 private sector jobs without any help from Amazon.

https://www.labor.ny.gov/stats/nyc/


I was kind of hoping that the next baseball stadium in Queens would be called Amazon Mets stadium.

I think Amazon locating in Newark would ultimately be great.


ml1 said:
... There are over 4 million people employed in NYC.  And plenty of other tech companies are expanding there....There are already a long list of good business reasons for Amazon to locate there, just as Google has done....

Exactly, and Amazon remains one of the tech companies planning to expand in NYC. In their statement today, they said, "There are currently over 5,000 Amazon employees in Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Staten Island, and we plan to continue growing these teams."


if NYC unemployment spikes to 8%, it will be because the larger U.S. economy goes into the tank, not because they rejected Amazon. 

Of all the cities in the Amazon bake off, the two that absolutely didn't need to throw money at Bezos were NYC and DC.  


mrincredible said:
I was kind of hoping that the next baseball stadium in Queens would be called Amazon Mets stadium.
I think Amazon locating in Newark would ultimately be great.

Funny thing is, Amazon is saying that it's not going to reopen the search. They still plan to add jobs in NYC, and they'll be expanding in other cities. So whatever it was they were planning to specifically do in LIC, it doesn't seem essential for it to be on one campus.

First they were saying they were looking to build one huge 2nd HQ outside of Seattle. Then they said, no, we're going to do two, combined they'll be about the size of the first plan. Now they're saying, they really don't need both of them. Kind of dizzying to follow.


apple44 said:


mrincredible said:
I was kind of hoping that the next baseball stadium in Queens would be called Amazon Mets stadium.
I think Amazon locating in Newark would ultimately be great.
Funny thing is, Amazon is saying that it's not going to reopen the search. They still plan to add jobs in NYC, and they'll be expanding in other cities. So whatever it was they were planning to specifically do in LIC, it doesn't seem essential for it to be on one campus.
First they were saying they were looking to build one huge 2nd HQ outside of Seattle. Then they said, no, we're going to do two, combined they'll be about the size of the first plan. Now they're saying, they really don't need both of them. Kind of dizzying to follow.

they were talking as if they were building 3 if you include Nashville


Good riddance. There is a reason it is illegal for companies to make cities compete for their presence in Europe. This tax incentive business only helps huge corporations and the already wealthy, as we've seen in NYC with all the empty high rise buildings with huge tax abatements and no pied-a-terre tax amidst an affordable housing shortage in the city. The $27 billion in expected revenue was always a pipe dream. Additionally, the stress on transportation systems of accommodating more traffic to LIC, more kids in schools in the area, more gentrification, stress on municipal services, etc. was sure to cause more burden on the people of the city, and more specifically, the people already living in LIC.

Amazon can go pound sand.


AOC’s rap name should be Ghostface Jobkillah.


als4532 said:
Good riddance. There is a reason it is illegal for companies to make cities compete for their presence in Europe. This tax incentive business only helps huge corporations and the already wealthy, as we've seen in NYC with all the empty high rise buildings with huge tax abatements and no pied-a-terre tax amidst an affordable housing shortage in the city. 

And how do you think all those buildings on NJ's side of the Hudson got built? All those corporations moving to the Jersey Hudson? Tax incentives.

You think it only helps corporations? Those working there beg to differ. 


BG9 said:


als4532 said:
Good riddance. There is a reason it is illegal for companies to make cities compete for their presence in Europe. This tax incentive business only helps huge corporations and the already wealthy, as we've seen in NYC with all the empty high rise buildings with huge tax abatements and no pied-a-terre tax amidst an affordable housing shortage in the city. 
And how do you think all those buildings on NJ's side of the Hudson got built? All those corporations moving to the Jersey Hudson? Tax incentives.
You think it only helps corporations? Those working there beg to differ. 

 Yeah, they use all those tax breaks to give their employees huge pay raises! All glory to Globochem and our corporate overlords!


NYC doesn't need to give any business incentives to move there.  Amazon itself is planning to employ 5500 at a location in Hudson Yards.  Google is expanding in NY as well.  It's not as though NY can't find other ways to attract 25,000 tech jobs over the next few years.  


this article was written before Amazon announced it was planning a move to Queens:

New York is the tech sector's official second city


als4532 said:
Good riddance. There is a reason it is illegal for companies to make cities compete for their presence in Europe. 

 Is it? I know that London Docklands Development Corporation has so far been given over 7 billion pounds in public subsidies.

Germany has incentives:



Even with tax incentives, it would be good for Newark to get some portion of the Amazon jobs. 


 NYC was a different story and LIC and the area will be fine with or without Amazon.  


Simple moral of this story - if you make it too difficult for a business to do business (political opposition, onerous taxes etc.) they will just go elsewhere.



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