All you need to know about the Dakota Access Oil Pipeline (DAPL) protests
Well I will add this to the discussion:
http://www.snopes.com/dapl-routed-through-standing-rock-after-bismarck-residents-said-no/
Apparently there was a plan to route the pipeline through Bismarck early in the planning phase. But that plan was rejected because it would have been eleven miles longer and had more water crossings. Not because the residents of Bismarck protested.
mrincredible said:
Well I will add this to the discussion:
http://www.snopes.com/dapl-routed-through-standing-rock-after-bismarck-residents-said-no/
Apparently there was a plan to route the pipeline through Bismarck early in the planning phase. But that plan was rejected because it would have been eleven miles longer and had more water crossings. Not because the residents of Bismarck protested.
Amazing, isn't it...FACTS matter !
Dennis_Seelbach said:
mrincredible said:
Well I will add this to the discussion:
http://www.snopes.com/dapl-routed-through-standing-rock-after-bismarck-residents-said-no/
Apparently there was a plan to route the pipeline through Bismarck early in the planning phase. But that plan was rejected because it would have been eleven miles longer and had more water crossings. Not because the residents of Bismarck protested.
Amazing, isn't it...FACTS matter !
Tribal land is just that. Not a favorable route for a pipe line. My niece posted a schematic of all the pipe lines that
have burst over the years................thus polluting the surrounding areas.
Yes, facts do matter.
author said:
Dennis_Seelbach said:
mrincredible said:
Well I will add this to the discussion:
http://www.snopes.com/dapl-routed-through-standing-rock-after-bismarck-residents-said-no/
Apparently there was a plan to route the pipeline through Bismarck early in the planning phase. But that plan was rejected because it would have been eleven miles longer and had more water crossings. Not because the residents of Bismarck protested.
Amazing, isn't it...FACTS matter !
Tribal land is just that. Not a favorable route for a pipe line. My niece posted a schematic of all the pipe lines that
have burst over the years................thus polluting the surrounding areas.
Yes, facts do matter.
The OP wasn't about whether the pipeline should be rerouted. The "facts" referred to are the claim in the OP that the route was changed because of the protests of the mostly white residents of Bismark, which the Snopes article said was not correct. (I've looked at other articles and Snopes is correct.)
I am not a fan of running pipelines through sensitive areas (environmental or cultural). But one lesson I hope we can all take away from recent events is that it does your cause no good when you hasten to repeat information you haven't vetted.
I mostly blame the Huffington Post in this circumstance, but reposting information from that source should be done with caution. They are primarily an opinion site and given to jump on "facts" like this that support their side. If you're going to start a thread stating that this is "all you need to know" about a subject you'd better make sure your information is accurate.
mrincredible said:
Well I will add this to the discussion:
http://www.snopes.com/dapl-routed-through-standing-rock-after-bismarck-residents-said-no/
Apparently there was a plan to route the pipeline through Bismarck early in the planning phase. But that plan was rejected because it would have been eleven miles longer and had more water crossings. Not because the residents of Bismarck protested.
Snopes quoted from the Bismarck Tribune but left out the first paragraph:
An early proposal for the Dakota Access Pipeline called for the project to cross the Missouri River north of Bismarck, but one reason that route was rejected was its potential threat to Bismarck’s water supply, documents show.
The decision to reject the route near Bismarck was made by the Army Corps of Engineers and as Snopes says:
The decision appeared to have been unrelated to objections from residents of Bismarck
So Snopes is hedging somewhat on whether there were objections to the original pipeline by residents of Bismarck.
However, in the absence of evidence that there were such objections, the text in my OP is incorrect and I'll edit it to reflect that.
The notation in the map, "original pipeline route nixed by regulators due to concerns over drinking water in Bismarck area" is correct and consistent with the Snopes article.
The author of the Huffington Post article cited has removed the reference to protests in Bismarck and posted the following correction:
The post has also been updated to remove reference to citizen protests against the original route in Bismarck, which I have not found a first-hand record of.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/a-nodapl-map_us_581a0623e4b014443087af35
Kudos to both of you.
This is why I like MOL.
It allows for a civility that is hard to find on the local social media sites.
Maybe if we liberals can learn to never admit our mistakes and to denigrate those who disagree with us we can win back the Congress and White House?
No photos necessary.............Two thousand American Veterans are arriving at Standing Rock as of today
These are men and women who have sworn to uphold the Constitution and protect their country from all enemies.........foreign and domestic. They plan to use their bodies as human shields for the demonstrators safety
They are keeping their word
Have the hippies been kicked out yet and the pipeline completed?
0dollars2cents said:
Have the hippies been kicked out yet and the pipeline completed?
Volunteers have stood fast. They face water canons and rubber bullets. Reservation land has long been considered
a separate entity . In the finest tradition of the Founding Fathers they are preventing further incursion by those
who would desecrate and despoil their land. And if you consider some 2000 American Service Veterans as
hippies...............you are myopic
anti-DAPL is the left wing version of fake news. Construction company did everything by the book, was granted all the necessary permits, did community meetings, completed legally mandated environmental studies etc etc etc. Look it up, if you don't believe me.
"environmental genocide" and all that is pretty lame and unfounded in facts. Real tragedy = events like Lac-Mégantic which can be avoided w modern pipelines.
Kick out the hippies and finish the pipeline! (since when did being a veteran mean you couldn't be a silly hippie??)
why do you think so many pipelines are leaking? CUZ THEY ARE OLD.
https://opsweb.phmsa.dot.gov/pipelineforum/docs/Secretarys%20Infrastructure%20Report_Revised%20per%20PHC_103111.pdf
pages 6-7, if you're lazy.
Since 1995, there have been more than 2,000 significant accidents involving pipelines carrying crude oil and refined petroleum products that have caused about $3 billion in property damage, according to data from the federal office that oversees pipeline safety, the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration. That's an average of a little over 100 per year. But after dipping to 77 in 2009, that figure has spiked to at least 121 in each of the past two years.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-oil-pipeline-leaks-20150522-story.html
author said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents_in_the_United_States_in_the_21st_century
0dollars2cents said:
anti-DAPL is the left wing version of fake news. Construction company did everything by the book, was granted all the necessary permits, did community meetings, completed legally mandated environmental studies etc etc etc. Look it up, if you don't believe me.
"environmental genocide" and all that is pretty lame and unfounded in facts. Real tragedy = events like Lac-Mégantic which can be avoided w modern pipelines.
Kick out the hippies and finish the pipeline! (since when did being a veteran mean you couldn't be a silly hippie??)
;Hippies are by definition silly...........I should know. At the same time, many of my "hippy" friends served time
at Allenwood and other government facilities at one time. I doubt that these Service People are hippies........
the two terms are contradictory. Although crisis can make for some strange bedfellows
Better get your Bi Focals adjusted Grandpa
We are at the part of the debate where you've conceded losing on facts, so you're poking holes in my (semi-joking) use of insult terms.
Hippies...not hippies...who cares. Poorly educated and misguided people-- that work?
Point is USA needs more modern pipelines, and DAPL is a step in the right direction.
author said:
0dollars2cents said:
anti-DAPL is the left wing version of fake news. Construction company did everything by the book, was granted all the necessary permits, did community meetings, completed legally mandated environmental studies etc etc etc. Look it up, if you don't believe me.
"environmental genocide" and all that is pretty lame and unfounded in facts. Real tragedy = events like Lac-Mégantic which can be avoided w modern pipelines.
Kick out the hippies and finish the pipeline! (since when did being a veteran mean you couldn't be a silly hippie??)
;Hippies are by definition silly...........I should know. At the same time, many of my "hippy" friends served time
at Allenwood and other government facilities at one time. I doubt that these Service People are hippies........
the two terms are contradictory. Although crisis can make for some strange bedfellows
Better get your Bi Focals adjusted Grandpa
0dollars2cents said:
why do you think so many pipelines are leaking? CUZ THEY ARE OLD.
https://opsweb.phmsa.dot.gov/pipelineforum/docs/Secretarys%20Infrastructure%20Report_Revised%20per%20PHC_103111.pdf
pages 6-7, if you're lazy.
Since 1995, there have been more than 2,000 significant accidents involving pipelines carrying crude oil and refined petroleum products that have caused about $3 billion in property damage, according to data from the federal office that oversees pipeline safety, the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration. That's an average of a little over 100 per year. But after dipping to 77 in 2009, that figure has spiked to at least 121 in each of the past two years.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-oil-pipeline-leaks-20150522-story.html
author said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents_in_the_United_States_in_the_21st_century
And you don't think the Dakota Pipeline sometimes in the future will not be old?
The questions you're asking and points you're raising betray a massive deficiency in knowledge about pipelines.
Modern pipelines have made enormous leaps in reliability by using superior materials and sensing technology that enables 24/7 monitoring, remote shut downs, and all sorts of awesome safety features that pipes built in 1950's never dreamed of.
Again-- if you don't believe me, look it up.
Sitting on our collective hands and screaming "environmental genocide" !!!! is irresponsible. A big chunk of this country's pipeline infrastructure = oil & gas version of Flint, MI. DAPL followed every rule in the book. Got all the required approvals, passed all the environmental studies. This pipeline needs to be built and will be built, and hopefully many more like it. The alternative is leaky old pipelines built 50 years ago and using rail/trucks. Pick a side.
0dollars2cents said:
The questions you're asking and points you're raising betray a massive deficiency in knowledge about pipelines.
Modern pipelines have made enormous leaps in reliability by using superior materials and sensing technology that enables 24/7 monitoring, remote shut downs, and all sorts of awesome safety features that pipes built in 1950's never dreamed of.
Again-- if you don't believe me, look it up.
Sitting on our collective hands and screaming "environmental genocide" !!!! is irresponsible. A big chunk of this country's pipeline infrastructure = oil & gas version of Flint, MI. DAPL followed every rule in the book. Got all the required approvals, passed all the environmental studies. This pipeline needs to be built and will be built, and hopefully many more like it. The alternative is leaky old pipelines built 50 years ago and using rail/trucks. Pick a side.
Keep believing the gospel of those who would build anywhere. Nothing is perfect and the best laid plans of mice
and men.........etc. You should know the rest. And yes I have chosen a side. A friend of mine in Edison fled for his
life when a gas line ruptured a few hundred feet from his apartment. Passing airline pilots who were hundreds of
feet high could see the flames from their vantage point. If it can go wrong, it will go wrong.............and it always can
Many of us protest against pipelines because of their environmental risk. Many of us have heard the argument about the need for more and more fuel. But in this case can't we all agree that we have not had a great history in our treatment of Native Americans and try to find an alternative route? Yes there are permits and plans but can't we on rare occasion put aside pragmatism and advance compassion? Is it too hippy too romantic? There was a great line from Norma Rae that said "Somewhere between logic and charity there falls a shadow."
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The dashed line shows the original proposed route of the pipeline.
After protests by Bismarck citizens (mostly white) who were feared contamination of their water supply, Out of concern over Bismarck's water supply and other issues, the Army Corps of Engineers rejected the route near Bismarck and the route was changed to the solid line, which goes through the water supply of the Native American population in the Standing Rock Reservation:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/a-nodapl-map_us_581a0623e4b014443087af35
Corrected on December 2nd per Snopes article as explained below.