"(that) is what happens when Negroes don't read...(he) is the token Negro"
Things said in the White House by Richard Nixon --
"The Jews have certain traits. The Irish have certain — for example, the Irish can’t drink. What you always have to remember with the Irish is they get mean. Virtually every Irish I’ve known gets mean when he drinks. Particularly the real Irish.”
"The Italians, of course, those people course don’t have their heads screwed on tight. They are wonderful people, but ..."
"The Jews are just a very aggressive and abrasive and obnoxious personality.”
"Bill Rogers has got — to his credit it’s a decent feeling — but somewhat sort of a blind spot on the black thing because he’s been in New York. He says well, ‘They are coming along, and that after all they are going to strengthen our country in the end because they are strong physically and some of them are smart.’ So forth and so on. My own view is I think he’s right if you’re talking in terms of 500 years. I think it’s wrong if you’re talking in terms of 50 years."
He wasn't "PC".
ml1 said:
I think the thing that a lot of people are reacting to is that West keeps going around saying the 13th Amendment needs to be repealed because he thinks it permits slavery instead of abolishing it.
He cites the phrase "except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted" as being a "trap door".
South_Mountaineer said:
Actual picture from Kanye West's visit to Oval Office.
Of the four, Kanye is the ONLY one not looking at the potential for "a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted".
LOST said:
mtierney said:Were we better off when a member of the President's Cabinet could say something like this?
PC is making folks tongue-tied.
If I have offended any tongue-tied persons, I apologize.
http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2009/09/woman-two-jews-and-cripple.html
Reminds me of an album
lord_pabulum said:
LOST said:Reminds me of an album
mtierney said:Were we better off when a member of the President's Cabinet could say something like this?
PC is making folks tongue-tied.
If I have offended any tongue-tied persons, I apologize.
http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2009/09/woman-two-jews-and-cripple.html
A punk band's album from 1992 where the members make fun of names they've been called could only remind you of James Watt if he was an African-American Jewish woman with a disability.
ml1 said:
maybe it's not fair but when someone complains about PC all I can think is "so I guess you're the kind of person who wants to be able to say racist ****."
Not always. With the discussion about the principal who mocked the student teacher, the conversation got temporarily derailed as people were more concerned with whether or not little person was preferable over dwarf. In other words, discussion about this person being mocked by a superior took a back seat over the discussion of the terms being used.
And jumping right to “they want to be able to say racist ****” is just an attempt to shut down the conversation instead of being open to discussion
comment not in good taste, perhaps, but inclusive for the point. The cartoon is funny — does anyone remember funny?
Bob Hope had a very “clean” standup act —with innuendos — but he wouldn’t pass scrutiny today. I might cringe hearing Irish drinking jokes, but am not horrified or damaged.
I am, however, disgusted by the filthy language heard in concerts, stage and screen — and sadly in use socially among adults everywhere. Apparently I am a minority in this and so, I have to accept this vulgarity in my life. (And English is such an expressive language!)
This may not comparable to gender or race dissing, but rich folks - black and white - are fodder for suspicion and hateful comments. How is that politically correct?
nohero said:
lord_pabulum said:A punk band's album from 1992 where the members make fun of names they've been called could only remind you of James Watt if he was an African-American Jewish woman with a disability.
LOST said:Reminds me of an album
mtierney said:Were we better off when a member of the President's Cabinet could say something like this?
PC is making folks tongue-tied.
If I have offended any tongue-tied persons, I apologize.
http://www.thisdayinquotes.com/2009/09/woman-two-jews-and-cripple.html
Actually no. the link reminded of the album. smh.
spontaneous said:
ml1 said:Not always. With the discussion about the principal who mocked the student teacher, the conversation got temporarily derailed as people were more concerned with whether or not little person was preferable over dwarf. In other words, discussion about this person being mocked by a superior took a back seat over the discussion of the terms being used.
maybe it's not fair but when someone complains about PC all I can think is "so I guess you're the kind of person who wants to be able to say racist ****."
And jumping right to “they want to be able to say racist ****” is just an attempt to shut down the conversation instead of being open to discussion
Of course it always depends. I'm talking about the people who claim that because of PC they're afraid to saying anything because someone might call them a racist. The only reason I can think of for someone to be concerned about being called racist is if they're thinking that they're actually going to say something racist.
mtierney said:
This may not comparable to gender or race dissing, but rich folks - black and white - are fodder for suspicion and hateful comments. How is that politically correct?
mtierney said:
PC is making folks tongue-tied.
If I have offended any tongue-tied persons, I apologize.
no. bigotry makes people tongue-tied. Trying to be respectful does not.
ml1 said:
mtierney said:
This may not comparable to gender or race dissing, but rich folks - black and white - are fodder for suspicion and hateful comments. How is that politically correct?
So, money insulates a person from pain, distress, loss, illness, death? Good grief!
mtierney said:
ml1 said:So, money insulates a person from pain, distress, loss, illness, death? Good grief!
mtierney said:
This may not comparable to gender or race dissing, but rich folks - black and white - are fodder for suspicion and hateful comments. How is that politically correct?
No one is saying that
Yes, English is a rich and descriptive language that evolves over time: most of the ‘vulgarity’ that many of us would rather not be confronted with on a daily basis was used by men and women, upper and lower classes, in Chaucer’s and Shakespeare’s times, written and spoken. We have the documents to show it. Even in our great-grandparents’ era there were equivalents, and use was rife; good dictionaries confirm the examples.
Studies have demonstrated that swearing eases stress and experience of painful events which includes hitting a toe or finger with a hammer, experiencing electric shock, recuperating from trauma, living through a difficult time... Perhaps your fellow citizens are feeling more than a little stressed?
ml1 said:
maybe it's not fair but when someone complains about PC all I can think is "so I guess you're the kind of person who wants to be able to say racist ****."
Sure. The point is that, apart from politics, it’s correct not to say such things.
ml1, but you did just that with the insulting offer of a tiny violin!
| Empathy | Sympathy |
|---|---|
| Definition | |
| Understanding what others are feeling because you have experienced it yourself or can put yourself in their shoes. | Acknowledging another person's emotional hardships and providing comfort and assurance. |
Interesting to me that in neither definition is wealth mentioned.
Why would wealth be mentioned in those definitions?
It seems to me that the prejudice against the poor is much more prevalent and far more harmful than the prejudice against the rich in America.
Of course I was taught a a child that the poor were the "less fortunate" and the rich tended to be greedy and dishonest which is how most of them became rich.
mtierney said:
Interesting to me that in neither definition is wealth mentioned.
We all measure out our empathy and sympathy in varying doses. For the specific causes you mentioned — suspicion and hateful comments — I think the wealthy are better equipped to weather them than most others are.
Prejudice against the Jews led to the Holocaust. Prejudice against Black People led to lynching.
No rich person has ever been persecuted in America for just being rich. Of course the Russian Revolutionaries and others like them may have persecuted and murdered certain rich people but that was general directed against a ruling aristocracy who had made the lives of most of their countrymen miserable for a long time.
mtierney said:
ml1, but you did just that with the insulting offer of a tiny violin!
no, I did not. Not at all. I was reacting to your absurd assertion that the wealthy need our sympathy because people are allegedly saying "hateful" things about them.
South_Mountaineer said:
drummerboy said:Sputnik News says so.
why are we upset? I'm confused.
US President Donald Trump met with two prominent musicians on Thursday — Kanye West and Kid Rock — when signing the Music Modernization Act. West, it seems, broke the internet with his remarks, which were derided by journalists as "incoherent." While West's remarks were at times bizarre, slightly misogynist and, let's say, braggadocious, he used the opportunity to address real issues, displaying a dedication to talking about important topics like prison reform, a responsibility which mainstream journalists have largely reneged on.While some of the hip-hop star's remarks were indeed difficult to understand and perhaps nonsensical, it is important to remember that he is a performer. Other issues the musician spoke about — often using metaphor — showed that West is a lot more politically astute than standard characterizations of him acknowledge.https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201810111068810606-Kanye-Wests-Insightful-Mockery-Derision/
I appreciate Sputnik New's mention of Kanye's interest in prison reform, which I think his wife also discussed in her less controversial visit to the White House. The focus on prison reform, not covered much (or at all) in the mainsteam media is a good thing, although Kanye's mental state makes it hard to notice the positive. The Intercept called out Don Lemon and others for their mocking remarks about West's mental state and hospitalization. The make a good point about the danger of discrediting people who have mental health issues or have been hospitalized.
excerpt:
After mocking West for his hospitalization, Setmayer quickly added: “You know not to trivialize mental health issues” – something she had just blatantly done and then proceeded immediately to do again, adding: “but I mean obviously, Kanye has taken a turn in a very strange way. You read any of his interviews, go back and read his interview with Charlamagne tha God. It’s all over the place.” Not only did Lemon nor any of the other panelists object, but they maintained their laughing, giggling tone as this mockery was spouted.
Amazingly, after the segment was aired, CNN seemed not to be ashamed but quite proud of it, as it promoted it online to its Twitter audience:
nan said:I appreciate Sputnik New's mention of Kanye's interest in prison reform, which I think his wife also discussed in her less controversial visit to the White House. The focus on prison reform, not covered much (or at all) in the mainsteam media is a good thing, although Kanye's mental state makes it hard to notice the positive.
From mainstream media, with more insight than Sputnik News --
It was all just as sad and tragic as one might have imagined. But, for me, too much of the focus afterward was placed on Kanye’s spectacle and not nearly enough on the callous way Trump tried to use and exploit that moment, and the degree to which we have every right to be incredulous about Trump’s manufactured concern for the criminal justice system’s propensity to chew up black lives and destroy them.
But it is disingenuous for Trump to claim he doesn’t know the criminal justice system mistreats and over-penalizes black people for drug crimes. This happens specifically because of an overzealous lust for punishment, the kind that Trump himself has long harbored and is now implementing.
The spectacle wasn’t really Kanye. The spectacle was watching Trump pretend to care about remedying a problem that he is consciously continuing to not only cheer but worsen. Kanye was just being used.
South_Mountaineer said:
nan said:I appreciate Sputnik New's mention of Kanye's interest in prison reform, which I think his wife also discussed in her less controversial visit to the White House. The focus on prison reform, not covered much (or at all) in the mainsteam media is a good thing, although Kanye's mental state makes it hard to notice the positive.From mainstream media, with more insight than Sputnik News --
It was all just as sad and tragic as one might have imagined. But, for me, too much of the focus afterward was placed on Kanye’s spectacle and not nearly enough on the callous way Trump tried to use and exploit that moment, and the degree to which we have every right to be incredulous about Trump’s manufactured concern for the criminal justice system’s propensity to chew up black lives and destroy them.But it is disingenuous for Trump to claim he doesn’t know the criminal justice system mistreats and over-penalizes black people for drug crimes. This happens specifically because of an overzealous lust for punishment, the kind that Trump himself has long harbored and is now implementing.The spectacle wasn’t really Kanye. The spectacle was watching Trump pretend to care about remedying a problem that he is consciously continuing to not only cheer but worsen. Kanye was just being used.https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/14/opinion/trumps-callous-use-of-kanye.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fopinion&action=click&contentCollection=opinion®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=3&pgtype=sectionfront
You ignore The Intercept article and go to the New York Time for insight? Where is the insight? Trump sucks, for sure, but he did not cause the problem of mass incarceration. Also, to say he claims he does not know. . . . Of course he knows, but he does not give a crap. But neither does the mainstream media. How much is this problem covered by the New York Times and mainstream media in general? Except for occasional mentions, it is hardly a priority. Except for Bernie Sanders, no other major presidential candidate made prison reform a major part of their platform. Sanders made us all aware that the US has more people in prison than any other country in the world. Mass incarceration started growing under Reagan and continued until the present time through many presidents, including Democratic (especially Clinton--his crime bill was devastating). They all had an "overzealous lust for punishment." Obama did a few things to reduce the prison population during his second term, but no major reform. So, given your take on this, were the American people being used through all those Presidents pretending to care?
nan said:Except for Bernie Sanders, no other major presidential candidate made prison reform a major part of their platform. Sanders made us all aware that the US has more people in prison than any other country in the world. Mass incarceration started growing under Reagan and continued until the present time through many presidents, including Democratic (especially Clinton--his crime bill was devastating). They all had an "overzealous lust for punishment." Obama did a few things to reduce the prison population during his second term, but no major reform. So, given your take on this, were the American people being used through all those Presidents pretending to care?
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/criminal-justice-reform/
Looks like Hillary had a lot of info on this. Why would you say it was only Bernie? Are you going to argue the "major part" or will you concede that Hillary had some strong ideas as well? This is really getting ridiculous!
(And I will not cut and paste the entire page to prove my point)
nan said:
You ignore The Intercept article and go to the New York Time for insight? Where is the insight? Trump sucks, for sure, but he did not cause the problem of mass incarceration. Also, to say he claims he does not know. . . . Of course he knows, but he does not give a crap. But neither does the mainstream media. How much is this problem covered by the New York Times and mainstream media in general? Except for occasional mentions, it is hardly a priority. Except for Bernie Sanders, no other major presidential candidate made prison reform a major part of their platform. Sanders made us all aware that the US has more people in prison than any other country in the world. Mass incarceration started growing under Reagan and continued until the present time through many presidents, including Democratic (especially Clinton--his crime bill was devastating). They all had an "overzealous lust for punishment." Obama did a few things to reduce the prison population during his second term, but no major reform. So, given your take on this, were the American people being used through all those Presidents pretending to care?
Is the crime bill you mention the one that Bernie Sanders voted for? (yeah, I think it is.)
Did you know that crime bill only affected federal prison rates? Whereas the frightening rise in our prison populations has happened almost entirely at the state and local level? Where the federal govt (and the crime bill) has no power or effect over?
Here's a picture.
The question is - will this data cause you to re-consider your demonization of the crime bill, and maybe turn your attention to the actual causes?
Experience says - probably not.
jamie said:
nan said:Except for Bernie Sanders, no other major presidential candidate made prison reform a major part of their platform. Sanders made us all aware that the US has more people in prison than any other country in the world. Mass incarceration started growing under Reagan and continued until the present time through many presidents, including Democratic (especially Clinton--his crime bill was devastating). They all had an "overzealous lust for punishment." Obama did a few things to reduce the prison population during his second term, but no major reform. So, given your take on this, were the American people being used through all those Presidents pretending to care?https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/criminal-justice-reform/
Looks like Hillary had a lot of info on this. Why would you say it was only Bernie? Are you going to argue the "major part" or will you concede that Hillary had some strong ideas as well? This is really getting ridiculous!
(And I will not cut and paste the entire page to prove my point)
What's really ridiculous is that Hillary's campaign probably had more defined policy proposals than any Prez candidate in history, yet she is continually lambasted for having practically none.
jamie said:
nan said:Except for Bernie Sanders, no other major presidential candidate made prison reform a major part of their platform. Sanders made us all aware that the US has more people in prison than any other country in the world. Mass incarceration started growing under Reagan and continued until the present time through many presidents, including Democratic (especially Clinton--his crime bill was devastating). They all had an "overzealous lust for punishment." Obama did a few things to reduce the prison population during his second term, but no major reform. So, given your take on this, were the American people being used through all those Presidents pretending to care?https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/criminal-justice-reform/
Looks like Hillary had a lot of info on this. Why would you say it was only Bernie? Are you going to argue the "major part" or will you concede that Hillary had some strong ideas as well? This is really getting ridiculous!
(And I will not cut and paste the entire page to prove my point)
This was a big part of Bernie's platform when he was campaigning. Don't remember Hillary bringing it up--perhaps if the particular audience suggested that was the thing to do? Remember, she had different opinions based on the audience. Did she condemn the crime bill signed by her husband--the one she campaigned for calling kids "superpredetors."
drummerboy said:
nan said:
You ignore The Intercept article and go to the New York Time for insight? Where is the insight? Trump sucks, for sure, but he did not cause the problem of mass incarceration. Also, to say he claims he does not know. . . . Of course he knows, but he does not give a crap. But neither does the mainstream media. How much is this problem covered by the New York Times and mainstream media in general? Except for occasional mentions, it is hardly a priority. Except for Bernie Sanders, no other major presidential candidate made prison reform a major part of their platform. Sanders made us all aware that the US has more people in prison than any other country in the world. Mass incarceration started growing under Reagan and continued until the present time through many presidents, including Democratic (especially Clinton--his crime bill was devastating). They all had an "overzealous lust for punishment." Obama did a few things to reduce the prison population during his second term, but no major reform. So, given your take on this, were the American people being used through all those Presidents pretending to care?
Is the crime bill you mention the one that Bernie Sanders voted for? (yeah, I think it is.)
Did you know that crime bill only affected federal prison rates? Whereas the frightening rise in our prison populations has happened almost entirely at the state and local level? Where the federal govt (and the crime bill) has no power or effect over?
Here's a picture.
The question is - will this data cause you to re-consider your demonization of the crime bill, and maybe turn your attention to the actual causes?
Experience says - probably not.
Are you trying to say the crime bill brought down crime? Cause that's not been proven. Correlation is not causation. The crime rate was already going down. Read the book, "The New Jim Crow." You need to.
Bernie may have voted for it--but he was campaigning against it heavily in 2016. It was mentioned in all of his speeches. He repeatedly talked about how we have more people in prison than anyone else in the world. This was a big part of his campaign. Hillary may have had some stuff written on it somewhere but if she mentioned it on the campaign train few or no one remembers. Did not seem like a priority to her.
drummerboy said:
jamie said:What's really ridiculous is that Hillary's campaign probably had more defined policy proposals than any Prez candidate in history, yet she is continually lambasted for having practically none.
nan said:Except for Bernie Sanders, no other major presidential candidate made prison reform a major part of their platform. Sanders made us all aware that the US has more people in prison than any other country in the world. Mass incarceration started growing under Reagan and continued until the present time through many presidents, including Democratic (especially Clinton--his crime bill was devastating). They all had an "overzealous lust for punishment." Obama did a few things to reduce the prison population during his second term, but no major reform. So, given your take on this, were the American people being used through all those Presidents pretending to care?https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/criminal-justice-reform/
Looks like Hillary had a lot of info on this. Why would you say it was only Bernie? Are you going to argue the "major part" or will you concede that Hillary had some strong ideas as well? This is really getting ridiculous!
(And I will not cut and paste the entire page to prove my point)
On paper, Hillary was the most qualified presidential candidate in modern times. The irony is that she lost to the most unqualified candidate in modern times.
A classic case of style over substance.
drummerboy said:
jamie said:What's really ridiculous is that Hillary's campaign probably had more defined policy proposals than any Prez candidate in history, yet she is continually lambasted for having practically none.
nan said:Except for Bernie Sanders, no other major presidential candidate made prison reform a major part of their platform. Sanders made us all aware that the US has more people in prison than any other country in the world. Mass incarceration started growing under Reagan and continued until the present time through many presidents, including Democratic (especially Clinton--his crime bill was devastating). They all had an "overzealous lust for punishment." Obama did a few things to reduce the prison population during his second term, but no major reform. So, given your take on this, were the American people being used through all those Presidents pretending to care?https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/criminal-justice-reform/
Looks like Hillary had a lot of info on this. Why would you say it was only Bernie? Are you going to argue the "major part" or will you concede that Hillary had some strong ideas as well? This is really getting ridiculous!
(And I will not cut and paste the entire page to prove my point)
Were those "defined policy proposals" of HRC, her public policy positions or her private policy positions?
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maybe it's not fair but when someone complains about PC all I can think is "so I guess you're the kind of person who wants to be able to say racist ****."